Is it possible to sue Anet - Guild Wars Forums

Killed u man · Apr 29, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

First off, I'm not some 12 year old pissed off kid that threatens EVERYONE TO SEW THEIR ASS OF IF THEY DONT GET WHAT THEY WANT TAKAKAKAKA.

I KNOW It's Anet's game, and they can do whatever they want, bla bla bla.

But now on a serious note, I know that by "installing" GW, and thus agreeing with the EULA, you're pretty much signing a contract.
It depends on the country you are in, but here in Belgium, we have certain "buyer's protection", which is a "law" with certain clauses that protects buyers again certain abuse by the sale's company, even tough stated differently in the contract.

Coming to mind here is the infamous: "How long do I have guaranteed on XX item" discussion. (This is not related to GW, but I'm just giving an example to sketch what I'm talking about)
So, in Belgium, even IF the contract states you only have 6 months guaranteed, the Belgium law forces the company to give XX (I think it's 2) years of guarantee on items.

So you get the idea, just because the EULA says something, doesn't mean it's necessary law and order.

Now on the main topic:

Can one sue Anet for "banning" you, and thus ending your agreement, even tough you handled according to their rules? (I know, sueing over an acount is dumb, but it's the idea that counts)

So if they ban you for a reason which is not stated in the EULA, and thus can't be concidered "against the rules", is it legal? And if their EULA states they can ban everyone, whenever they want, with or without reason, is that a legal clause?

Thanks

Ghengis Kwell · Apr 29, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

You can sue them , I am pretty sure you can sue any company/person if you have a grievance , whether or not it is advisable to do so is another matter

Killed u man · Apr 29, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghengis Kwell

You can sue them , I am pretty sure you can sue any company/person if you have a grievance , whether or not it is advisable to do so is another matter

Well, that's kinda my question.

Is it achievable as a regular person to "win" a legal fight, IF Anet breaks their own EULA, by banning you without a grounded reason?

Darkobra · Apr 29, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

You're more than welcome to try. Three Texans suing Microsoft comes to mind. Of course they've sought legal representation in their EULA and I'm almost certain you'll lose. At least you'll be famous for a day for trying.

Bowstring Badass · Apr 29, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Well, that's kinda my question.

Is it achievable as a regular person to "win" a legal fight, IF Anet breaks their own EULA, by banning you without a grounded reason?

I believe it states some where in EULA that your account can be terminated for any reason at anytime. And by agreeing to the EULA you basically signed that you will lose any case in a court of law.

wind fire and ice · Apr 29, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

You can sue them,you can sue your cat for eating your peanut butter..but i dont think you would have much luck at winning..if they banned you they had a reason.

Taurean · Apr 29, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I guess it depends on how clear the offence is, and if the offended person is offended on a personal level to such a degree that s\he cannot fucntion like normal in the society x)

No really, i don't know.

alluring athena · Apr 29, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

What would you be suing for? Financial loss due to being banned unjustly?

One thing is for sure...you would most certainly have to endure financial loss attempting to sue them.

However if you have unlimited resources and feel you have been wronged then I don't see why you couldn't take them to court

Medoc · Apr 29, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I would guess it really depends on what civil rights you have in your country, Belgium I believe you said? I'm not a lawyer, however, in the US we are enabled with rights to bring lawsuits if there was some form of harm to ourselves, family members or property. I would imagine that you would also have to prove something similar, or that the company perpetrated some form of fraud or other malicious act, taking into consideration what they are legally obligated to do. If you can prove some of these, and you have the time and money, go for it. Otherwise, you have a frivolous suit and are just wasting precious time and need to move on.

Killed u man · Apr 29, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by alluring athena

What would you be suing for? Financial loss due to being banned unjustly?

One thing is for sure...you would most certainly have to endure financial loss attempting to sue them.

However if you have unlimited resources and feel you have been wronged then I don't see why you couldn't take them to court

Well, the claim would obviously be the money/times wasted on the game...

Don't think I'm planning on taking legal actions, I'm merely wondering IF it achieveable. The day I'm going to waste money on sueing Anet is the the day they can put me in my grave.

It's more a "IF" situation...

moriz · Apr 29, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

if you are someone more powerful than ncsoft and arenanet combined, then you'll win your case. if not, then don't even think about it. they can just drag the case on until you go bankrupt from court expenses.

Killed u man · Apr 29, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

I believe it states some where in EULA that your account can be terminated for any reason at anytime. And by agreeing to the EULA you basically signed that you will lose any case in a court of law.

Ok, but is this a legal clause? Is it legal for a company to put a clause in a contract of there that states you CAN'T sue them, even if THEY themselves break that very EULA?

makosi · Apr 29, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

If "you can't sue me" was a valid exclusion clause, we'd see it everywhere.

The same applies from the product/service. Telecommunications companies, for example, can't simply switch off your services out of the blue without being able to justify doing so or reimbursing the customer.

REDdelver · Apr 29, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

I believe it states some where in EULA that your account can be terminated for any reason at anytime. And by agreeing to the EULA you basically signed that you will lose any case in a court of law.

I'm no so sure about that. Even if you are talking about "at-will," there still needs to be justifiable reasoning behind banning an account. These contracts have to have not only seller protection but buyer protection, otherwise it would be a complete waste of time and money for Anet/Ncsoft to invest in a EULA. Its NOT as simple as saying...they can ban your account anytime for any reason.

Killed u man --> Your question is really irrelevant at this time due to the lack of information you provided. The real issues are
#1 Did you infact do something that is against the EULA.
#2 Contact Anet to find out why exactly you were banned.
#3 You have to be able to defend yourself if you did something unknowingly against the EULA. Even at this, if you did something...you still did something... then a ban can be deemed "warranted." Thus you tend to be at the mercy of the discretionaries of ANET.

There are chances that this could have been a mistake. If in fact you didnt do anything then theres a good chance that ANET can solve this before you would even think about sueing them.

When it comes to playing games over the internet or doing "certain" things over the internet, I believe you are not protected by your own country's "civil" laws when dealing with companies of another country. (i could be wrong) Basically Anet must adhere to State/federal civil law (per say of the United States)...It would legal nightmare to write up eula's based off of each country presumed to have potential or existing buyers.

By all means if anyone has anything different in their head..please add if you feel im wrong.

Ghengis Kwell · Apr 29, 2009, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Ok, but is this a legal clause? Is it legal for a company to put a clause in a contract of there that states you CAN'T sue them, even if THEY themselves break that very EULA?

Again I am no expert but if they put it in and you agree to it then that makes it a binding contract , one rule to rule them all.......read the small print!!!

Songbringer · Apr 29, 2009, 05:27 PM // 17:27

I read most of your post and a couple of posts that said yes so I am here to tell yoy something. Yes you can sue anet but anet's name will not be on the suit. NCsoft will be since Anet is owned by NCsoft you are goign to sue the top dog. Just like PG(procter and gamble if you didn't know) owns Iams and Eukanuba if that dog food killed rover then You sue PG not Iams...Get it..Got it...Good. However, you won't win. Simply because big company with 2 dozen lawyers>you. Not to mention that like you said the eula is a contract and you sign it. Do you really think anet didn't*ncsoft rather* didn't check into laws like this belguim's buyer's law or whatever. Yes, they did.

Faure · Apr 29, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Probably a normal person wouldn't have the wealth to outlaw the laywers a corporation like Anet can afford. Also most corporations have some kind of law-insurance. On top of that, the costs of suing is more then the gains, so you might not even get a lawsuit at all, unless you can convince a lawyer to take such a job (which enough money probably will =)).

Winka · Apr 29, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

if you are someone more powerful than ncsoft and arenanet combined, then you'll win your case. if not, then don't even think about it. they can just drag the case on until you go bankrupt from court expenses.

this ^
They just send you 10k pages of paper go go go read it all. I dont think it is possible to sue them for anything tbh. Then they have to steal/sell bank info or something like that

Would be awsome to sue them for banning you through, go for it !

oracle.delphi · Apr 29, 2009, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Well in response to your guarantee laws, and applicable to any warranty really, I'd have to say there are some cases where you can void your warranty or guarantee. For example, if someone bought a computer, and paid for extra warranty. Then got mad one day and shot their computer. The warranty is voided. So, if you broke the eula, and thus got banned, dude i think you're pretty much screwed. And I'm not sure, but don't you have to do something really bad to get perma-banned. And if you feel you don't deserve this, email support (i know it's crappy and slow) and see what happened, and what can be done. (side note: don't mention legal action, this will effectivly end any conversation you can have with ANYONE you deal with...you threaten to sue, they send you to their lawyers)

beaverlegions · Apr 29, 2009, 05:30 PM // 17:30

What they consider as an offence can be anything they want, a guild of mine that into law read the eula (one of the old ones) and noticed that since anet didnt define what an offence was, just the fact that you used textmod or that you farmed or that you stayed afk too long could get you banned.
By signing it you were agreeing to obey their rules with everything that concerns the game and one of their rules is ANET and can rape you ingame in any way they want.
Most mmos do that nowadays to prevent mother from suing them because their kids died playing wow while taking E to stay awake for 7 years in a row.

Apr 29, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06	#13
makosi Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: "Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff. Guild: Requirement Begins With R [notQ] Profession: Me/	If "you can't sue me" was a valid exclusion clause, we'd see it everywhere. The same applies from the product/service. Telecommunications companies, for example, can't simply switch off your services out of the blue without being able to justify doing so or reimbursing the customer. Last edited by makosi; Apr 29, 2009 at 05:24 PM // 17:24..

Apr 29, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28	#17
Faure Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: Mystic Spiral [MYST] Profession: R/	Probably a normal person wouldn't have the wealth to outlaw the laywers a corporation like Anet can afford. Also most corporations have some kind of law-insurance. On top of that, the costs of suing is more then the gains, so you might not even get a lawsuit at all, unless you can convince a lawyer to take such a job (which enough money probably will =)). Last edited by Faure; Apr 29, 2009 at 05:30 PM // 17:30..

Apr 29, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22	#1
Killed u man Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2006	Is it possible to sue Anet First off, I'm not some 12 year old pissed off kid that threatens EVERYONE TO SEW THEIR ASS OF IF THEY DONT GET WHAT THEY WANT TAKAKAKAKA. I KNOW It's Anet's game, and they can do whatever they want, bla bla bla. But now on a serious note, I know that by "installing" GW, and thus agreeing with the EULA, you're pretty much signing a contract. It depends on the country you are in, but here in Belgium, we have certain "buyer's protection", which is a "law" with certain clauses that protects buyers again certain abuse by the sale's company, even tough stated differently in the contract. Coming to mind here is the infamous: "How long do I have guaranteed on XX item" discussion. (This is not related to GW, but I'm just giving an example to sketch what I'm talking about) So, in Belgium, even IF the contract states you only have 6 months guaranteed, the Belgium law forces the company to give XX (I think it's 2) years of guarantee on items. So you get the idea, just because the EULA says something, doesn't mean it's necessary law and order. Now on the main topic: Can one sue Anet for "banning" you, and thus ending your agreement, even tough you handled according to their rules? (I know, sueing over an acount is dumb, but it's the idea that counts) So if they ban you for a reason which is not stated in the EULA, and thus can't be concidered "against the rules", is it legal? And if their EULA states they can ban everyone, whenever they want, with or without reason, is that a legal clause? Thanks

Apr 29, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31	#2
Ghengis Kwell Baby Maker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Guild: Sent Fromhell Profession: D/W	You can sue them , I am pretty sure you can sue any company/person if you have a grievance , whether or not it is advisable to do so is another matter

Apr 29, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39	#4
Darkobra Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scotland Guild: Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot Profession: E/Me	You're more than welcome to try. Three Texans suing Microsoft comes to mind. Of course they've sought legal representation in their EULA and I'm almost certain you'll lose. At least you'll be famous for a day for trying.

Apr 29, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41	#6
wind fire and ice Jungle Guide Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: There Guild: [ToA]	You can sue them,you can sue your cat for eating your peanut butter..but i dont think you would have much luck at winning..if they banned you they had a reason.

Apr 29, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41	#7
Taurean Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South of Norway - The land of Vikings Guild: I have no guild - Yet Profession: R/	I guess it depends on how clear the offence is, and if the offended person is offended on a personal level to such a degree that s\he cannot fucntion like normal in the society x) No really, i don't know.

Apr 29, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43	#8
alluring athena Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2009	What would you be suing for? Financial loss due to being banned unjustly? One thing is for sure...you would most certainly have to endure financial loss attempting to sue them. However if you have unlimited resources and feel you have been wronged then I don't see why you couldn't take them to court

Apr 29, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55	#9
Medoc Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jan 2009 Guild: Amazon Basin Profession: W/	I would guess it really depends on what civil rights you have in your country, Belgium I believe you said? I'm not a lawyer, however, in the US we are enabled with rights to bring lawsuits if there was some form of harm to ourselves, family members or property. I would imagine that you would also have to prove something similar, or that the company perpetrated some form of fraud or other malicious act, taking into consideration what they are legally obligated to do. If you can prove some of these, and you have the time and money, go for it. Otherwise, you have a frivolous suit and are just wasting precious time and need to move on.

Apr 29, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02	#11
moriz ??ber t??k-n??sh'??n Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Profession: R/	if you are someone more powerful than ncsoft and arenanet combined, then you'll win your case. if not, then don't even think about it. they can just drag the case on until you go bankrupt from court expenses.

Apr 29, 2009, 05:27 PM // 17:27	#16
Songbringer Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: EastCoast Profession: E/Me	I read most of your post and a couple of posts that said yes so I am here to tell yoy something. Yes you can sue anet but anet's name will not be on the suit. NCsoft will be since Anet is owned by NCsoft you are goign to sue the top dog. Just like PG(procter and gamble if you didn't know) owns Iams and Eukanuba if that dog food killed rover then You sue PG not Iams...Get it..Got it...Good. However, you won't win. Simply because big company with 2 dozen lawyers>you. Not to mention that like you said the eula is a contract and you sign it. Do you really think anet didn'tncsoft rather didn't check into laws like this belguim's buyer's law or whatever. Yes, they did.

Apr 29, 2009, 05:29 PM // 17:29	#19
oracle.delphi Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: ontario, canada Guild: Steel Beasts Profession: E/	Well in response to your guarantee laws, and applicable to any warranty really, I'd have to say there are some cases where you can void your warranty or guarantee. For example, if someone bought a computer, and paid for extra warranty. Then got mad one day and shot their computer. The warranty is voided. So, if you broke the eula, and thus got banned, dude i think you're pretty much screwed. And I'm not sure, but don't you have to do something really bad to get perma-banned. And if you feel you don't deserve this, email support (i know it's crappy and slow) and see what happened, and what can be done. (side note: don't mention legal action, this will effectivly end any conversation you can have with ANYONE you deal with...you threaten to sue, they send you to their lawyers)

Apr 29, 2009, 05:30 PM // 17:30	#20
beaverlegions Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2006 Guild: The Siege Turtles Profession: R/	What they consider as an offence can be anything they want, a guild of mine that into law read the eula (one of the old ones) and noticed that since anet didnt define what an offence was, just the fact that you used textmod or that you farmed or that you stayed afk too long could get you banned. By signing it you were agreeing to obey their rules with everything that concerns the game and one of their rules is ANET and can rape you ingame in any way they want. Most mmos do that nowadays to prevent mother from suing them because their kids died playing wow while taking E to stay awake for 7 years in a row.